fine horse products
Vogue & Fhoenix Standard
Flexible Soft-treed Saddle
Frequently Asked Questions:
Flexible Soft-treed Saddle
Frequently Asked Questions:
1. Why treeless or part treed? Why is it better than having a normal tree?
Answer:
Having no points of a tree means that the shoulders are much less restricted. Having flexibility laterally
means that the saddle will allow the horse’s back to round up and carry the rider more easily, also allowing
the rider to feel the movement of the horse in a way that a treed saddle doesn’t permit. Not having a tree
means that the saddle can be adjusted to fit almost any horse, with nothing more than additional shimming
or padding. The Vogue & Fhoenix offer unrivalled comfort to both horse and rider, combining the best 'Multifit'
flexibility and characteristics of a treeless saddle, self adjusting to the fit of almost any horse, but with the
rider support of a treed saddle.
2. What about pressure points?
Answer:
The Vogue & Fhoenix Saddles have been pressure tested using the Port Lewis Impression Pad and the
Pliance pressure testing system. The results showed impressive lack of pressure points across the board.
It is inevitable, however, that there will be slightly more pressure from the stirrup bars in rising trot and in a
two point seat, but this does not appear to cause any discomfort or damage to the horse. This is minimised
further when using the Suberpanel version of both models.
In a treed saddle, from the moment that the rider’s weight lands in the saddle once mounted, there will be
pressure from the tree, especially from the points. However well fitted the saddle, the solid nature of the
points of the tree, will restrict lateral extension of the shoulders. This may well also cause the shoulder
blade to jam up against the points every time the shoulder swings back, shortening the stride, and
eventually causing pain and bruising. In a treeless or part treed saddle, the weight is evenly distributed over
the horse’s back, with no pressure being exerted on the stirrup bars, until the rider rises to the trot, or stands
in the stirrups for fast work. If the rider is correctly balanced, with the weight also distributed down through a
secure lower leg, there should not be excessive weight placed on the stirrups and bars.
For endurance riding, hunting and any other discipline which requires the rider to be in the two point seat a
lot, the Suberpanel Versions are very much our recommendation, unless the horse has a prominent wither,
as it has superb weight distribution and pressure absorption properties.
3. Are pressure points caused by the rider’s seatbones?
Answer:
The saddle is as thick as conventional saddles and made of layers of shock absorbing/pressure
dissipating material. We have experienced no soreness in all of the test horses, ‘cold backed’ horses have
shown no resistance at all to the Vogue or Fhoenix. Those horses who have suffered sore backs, through
conventional saddles being incorrectly fitted, accept the Fhoenix willingly.
4. Is there any pressure from the part tree, where it ends or begins, perhaps?
Answer:
No, the part tree is a minimal component of the rigid cantle, and a small support, which enters the seat area
of the saddle by a mere two inches. There is a thick layer of wool felt, plus either the Prolite panels or
Suberpanels underneath the part tree, and it has never caused any problems.
5. Does the saddle feel very wide without a tree?
Answer:
The seat and twist have been designed to allow the rider’s thighs to drop easily into a more vertical knee
position, the saddle having a definite ‘waist’, which does not leave the rider feeling straddled as if bareback.
In fact, the Vogue & Fhoenix very likely provide the narrowist twist similar to a treed saddle of all the flexible or
treeless saddles on the market today, yet are the nearest thing to sitting on a firm cushion on a horse!! The
rider who is accustomed to sitting in a ‘chair’ seat as a result of riding in most GP saddles, will feel more
stretched as little stretch is placed on the hip and thigh joints when sitting in this way - as soon as the leg is
brought back into line, and the hip joints have to open and the thighs stretch, the saddle will feel wide!! This
is often attributed to the fact that the saddle is treeless, but in fact is mostly to do with the placement of the
stirrup bars.
6. So, why are the stirrup bars so much further back?
Answer:
Nearly all conventional saddles have the stirrup bars set too far to the front, resulting in the rider’s seat being
pushed to the back of the saddle, and the thighs pulled forwards. This is why so many riders find it nigh on
impossible to maintain the ear/shoulder/hip/heel line - the very tool that is supposed to be assisting the
rider, i.e. the saddle is actually preventing him or her from maintaining this ideal position of balance! The
stirrup bars are set back as in all of the Heather Moffett designed saddles, to enable an instant
‘ear/shoulder/hip/heel’ line to be easily achieved. The bars have been designed to permit the use of normal
stirrups, allowing the leather to come away and prevent the rider being dragged in the event of a fall. They
are attached to strong webbing, which is in turn, attached to wider bands of webbing strained front to back,
to ensure that the weight is evenly distributed, and which also carries the girth straps.
7. My saddle doesn’t look as if it fits when I place it on my horses’ back - it bridges in the middle and the
panels and flaps seem to point a bit backwards?
Answer:
This is because when the rider’s weight causes the saddle to sink in the middle, this pushes the flaps
forward. The saddle may appear not to touch all along the back, and may protrude at the rear, on either side
of the back, but after riding in it a few times, it will very quickly mould and adjust to the shape of the horse.
8. The saddle looked asymmetric when it came out of the box.
Answer:
This is because it is fully flexible, excepting the cantle, and will sometimes assume the shape of the box.
This will quickly correct itself once used on the horse.
9. The saddle feels very hard when the weather is cold!
Answer:
Under cold conditions, the viscose-elastic foam used in the seat will feel hard. If you do not wish to warm
and soften the foam with your own seat - it is fine to warm the saddle before use, either by keeping it in a
warm place or allowing it to sit for ten minutes or so on the horse’s back before riding, preferably with a rug
over the sadde and horse’s back to retain heat if necessary. One of the microwave ‘hotties’ - a wheat or
similar filled bag used as a hot water bottle or heat pad, is excellent to place on the seat in exceptionally cold
weather, to warm and soften the foam. Another therapeutic suggestion is using a Back on Track Blanket or
cooler which offers reflected infrared heat into the horses back and body (and saddle).
Another wonderful accessory is the Seat Topper made of latex and suede, which is not cold sensitive and
looks superb on the saddle (either Vogue or Fhoenix)!
10. Can I use my normal stirrup leathers with the Fhoenix?
Answer:
Dressage stirrup leathers - i.e. those with adjustment at the stirrup end should be used, as the stirrup bars
cannot be recessed as with treed saddles. We recommend our EE Leathers in exact matching leather
colors, or their equivalent like the Bates Webbers.
11. My stirrup leathers sometimes fall off when I am leading my horse.
Answer:
Cross the leathers over the seat of the saddle when leading. NB - very important!! - the rider must ensure
that the stirrup leather is fully forward on the stirrup bar before mounting! The leather can move to the end of
the bar when the horse is being led, which could lead to the leather coming off if for any reason, the rider’s
lower leg slips back. the stirrup bar cannot have a larger ‘hook’ on the end, because this could cause the
opposite to happen, and the leather may not come off in the event of a fall where the rider could be dragged.
12. What type of girth do you recommend?
Answer:
We strongly advocate the Professional’s Choice dressage girth - this girth is extremely well made,
elasticated at both ends (one end means that the saddle is pulled unequally to one side) and has a wide
neoprene strip against the horse, which is velcroed and can be removed for easy washing. Correct choice of
girth can influence the stability of the saddle and leather girths, in particular, can contribute to stability
problems.
13. How long should my dressage girth be?
Answer:
Usually, a dressage girth needs to be about 20 inches shorter than your regular English general purpose
girth. Ensure that the girth is done up equally on both sides. If the girth is too short, it will result in the horse’s
elbows hitting the buckles as the shoulder swings back and forth. This is very painful, possibly causing
injuries to the elbow, and has even been severe enough for it to be known to bring a horse down. Therefore,
the girth should be long enough to come about two inches below the bottom of the saddle flap, once the
girth is sufficiently tightened.
14. Why have both GP and dressage models long girth straps, and not the conventional three short
billets associated with GP saddles?
Question:
This is because we found the saddles to be less laterally stable with the longer girth, and also with the soft
Italian flaps, the rider is likely to feel the buckles under the thigh, causing them discomfort.
15. Does the Fhoenix come in different widths?
Answer:
The Vogue & Fhoenix have a soft front arch, which expands and contracts automatically to accommodate
most horses. For very high withered horses we recommend the Vogue as it has slightly more wither
clearance than the Vogue. We also recommend the use of the Fleeceworks Perfect Balance Pad for
additional fit or balance adjustments. (see Q&A 18, 19 and 26 for additional fitting instructions to permit
easy fitting to high withered or atrophied horses).
16. Why have suede seat/knees or the butt leather flap as opposed to the soft Italian leather?
Answer:
It really comes down to personal preference and offering the customer a choice. For those riders who prefer
suede options, the suede is the reverse side of the leather hide we use so is high quality and hard wearing.
Butt leather flaps give an even more conventional look to the saddle and has the choice of either soft leather
or suede knees. The soft Italian leather flap with soft knees is also popular as riders enjoy the luxurious feel,
but it does not have the option of suede knees or seat.
17. Do the Vogue or Fhoenix have a gullet and spinal clearance, unlike some other treeless or part
treed saddles?
Answer:
Yes! They have a gullet - but this is more for lateral stability than spinal clearance. The saddle being soft
with no hard tree in either the front arch or down the gullet area, does not need spinal clearance, but the
presence of a gullet does make the saddle remarkably laterally stable, even permitting mounting from the
ground without difficulty. Although we strongly do not advise this on a normal basis, as it is damaging to the
horse’s back, it may be unavoidable out hacking occasionally, if the rider, for instance, drops his or her whip!
18. How do I place extra ‘shimming’ in my Prolite panelled Vogue or Fhoenix?
Answer:
The gullet has a velcroed flap along both sides, see below, allowing a small amount of extra padding to be
inserted into either side of the front arch, between the panel pad and the main body of the saddle, to give
extra clearance to very high withered or atrophied horses, eliminating the need for a variety of extra pads
under the saddle. We can supply Prolite or similar neoprene-based shims for this purpose.
19. What type of numnah or saddle cloth would you recommend?
Answer:
If using a numnah rather than a saddle cloth, make sure that it is large enough to fit so that the numnah has
around an inch at least showing all round the saddle, without any binding seams coming directly
underneath the saddle. This could encourage the saddle, with a less than balanced rider, to slip and rub,
especially across the back under the cantle region.
The Vogue or Fhoenix should always be used with a so-called ‘high wither’ cut saddle cloth, such as the
excellent Fleeceworks range. All saddle cloths and numnahs should be designed in this way, conforming to
the shape of the saddle arch, thereby not pulling across the wither, and creating a pressure point. The high
cut also assists with lateral stability, being cut to fit up into the front arch, rather than straight across.
With wide flat backed horses, overweight ones, such as the horse to the left, and those with mature, correctly
muscled backs, no padding is necessary. Use only a high wither saddle cloth.
For those with a small amount of atrophy, just needing an extra padding boost, our Backsaver pad, made
from the same visco elastic foam as the Fhoenix seat, is ideal, used on top of the Mattes cloth between cloth
and saddle.
Fhoenix Suberpanel Saddle
20. What is the difference between the standard panel and the Suberpanel?
Answer:
The Suberpanel is a fully detachable panel, filled with tiny cork granules, which mould exactly to the shape of
the horse’s back. The panel is chanelled lengthwise, and is also tabbed internally, keeping the cork dense
in the places it is most needed to disperse pressure.
21. Is it washable?
Answer:
Absolutely, in fact it it is even permissible to use the pad damp, out of the washing machine. When wet, the
cork swells, giving the cork extra moulding and adhesive qualities, especially so when used on very wide,
flat backed horses.
22. Has it had much testing?
Answer:
Yes, inventor David Ahn has testimonials from the Army and other institutions which have extensively tested
the original ‘Suberpad’ with weights of men up to 20 stone. The pad performed exceptionally well, and we
have tested it with the Port Lewis Impression Pad, giving the best readings of any of our saddles.
23. Does it slip in use?
Answer:
It is extremely stable even on the widest horses, even being possible to mount from the ground.
24. Does it make the saddle feel very wide?
Answer:
No. Actually, it makes it feel narrower, lifting the rider up slightly more than our standard panels,
accentuating the feeling of a ‘twist’. However, it may feel slightly wide initially before the cork moulds around
the rider's seat.
25. What do you feel are the main benefits of a Suberpanel?
Answer:
The pressure distribution, ease of changing from one horse to another in a busy yard. The freedom of the
shoulder afforded by the Suberpanel, which pulls up at the front when attached to the straps/’d’s, enabling
the shoulder to slide back and forth under the panel, giving exceptional lateral extension of the shoulder,
especially necessary in a dressage horse. It is ideal for wide, flat backed horses and can also be useful for
those with mild atrophy. However, it is not advised for horses with high and/or long, prominent withers.
Underside of panel
Suberpanel, front attachment
Suberpanel front
26. Would you advise the Vogue or Fhoenix even with atrophy of this severity?
Answer:
In this instance, we would even recommend a flat prolite panel Fhoenix, with one of David Ahn’s standard
shape Suberpads to begin with, in place of the shaped Suberpanel - she needs all the padding she can get
in order to develop some of her own! Later, the thicker moulded panels can be inserted and less padding
used, eg a lambswool half-pad, such as the Stephens, or our own backsaver pad.
Even the worse cases of atrophy can be fitted
27. Why do you have two types of moulded panel?
Answer:
The thicker moulded panels are shaped for more depth at the edge of the panels. They are ideal for the
more A framed horse or pony, ponies who although may not have much wither but are physically narrow
compared to, for example, a flat backed cob, or for horses lacking in muscle development. The flatter panels
are ideal for wider, flatter backed horses. However, there is always the exception to the rule, which is why all
new Vogue or Fhoenix saddles will ship with both types of panel, as well as a set of shims. Both types fit in
the leather panel pockets of the Fhoenix saddle and are completely interchangeable.
28. Will the Vogue or Fhoenix last as long as a conventional treed saddle?
Answer:
The saddle is by its nature and construction, very different, and the life expectancy is unlikely to be as long as
that of a treed saddle, which can be twenty years or more with proper care. The saddle has been
manufactured using the finest quality materials, but these are softer than those used in treed saddles, in
order to give the saddle flexibility, and the grip needed when no tree is present. The original Flexion
prototype is still going strong after nine years of use, and the quality of materials used and standard of
manufacture was very poor by comparison! But we like to look at it that in most sports, you would pay at least
a couple of hundred pounds a year for equipment, a decent pair of running shoes will cost £150, so if you
take that the Fhoenix lasts, with proper care and normal use, ten years, that is only £100 per year.
29. How do I care for the saddle?
Answer:
The saddle should be either oiled regularly with a product such as Leather Therapy leather dressing, or can
be waterproofed with Nikwax G wax leather dressing, which will also keep the leather supple. The saddle
should also be regularly cleaned with saddle soap, such as a glycerine based product - the spray glycerine
soaps are excellent - or again the Leather Therapy spray cleaner.
The saddle does not need reflocking and maintenance is minimal. Should the Prolite panels need
replacing, replacements can be ordered here. These can usually be inserted fairly easily. Suberpanels are
extremely long lasting - the original Suberpads from 1996 are still in daily use, but should the panel be
ripped or torn in any way, and the cork lost, replacements can again be purchased.
Stitching should be regularly checked, as with all saddles, especially girth billets and if repair is needed,
should be attended to immediately - please contact us.
Answer:
Having no points of a tree means that the shoulders are much less restricted. Having flexibility laterally
means that the saddle will allow the horse’s back to round up and carry the rider more easily, also allowing
the rider to feel the movement of the horse in a way that a treed saddle doesn’t permit. Not having a tree
means that the saddle can be adjusted to fit almost any horse, with nothing more than additional shimming
or padding. The Vogue & Fhoenix offer unrivalled comfort to both horse and rider, combining the best 'Multifit'
flexibility and characteristics of a treeless saddle, self adjusting to the fit of almost any horse, but with the
rider support of a treed saddle.
2. What about pressure points?
Answer:
The Vogue & Fhoenix Saddles have been pressure tested using the Port Lewis Impression Pad and the
Pliance pressure testing system. The results showed impressive lack of pressure points across the board.
It is inevitable, however, that there will be slightly more pressure from the stirrup bars in rising trot and in a
two point seat, but this does not appear to cause any discomfort or damage to the horse. This is minimised
further when using the Suberpanel version of both models.
In a treed saddle, from the moment that the rider’s weight lands in the saddle once mounted, there will be
pressure from the tree, especially from the points. However well fitted the saddle, the solid nature of the
points of the tree, will restrict lateral extension of the shoulders. This may well also cause the shoulder
blade to jam up against the points every time the shoulder swings back, shortening the stride, and
eventually causing pain and bruising. In a treeless or part treed saddle, the weight is evenly distributed over
the horse’s back, with no pressure being exerted on the stirrup bars, until the rider rises to the trot, or stands
in the stirrups for fast work. If the rider is correctly balanced, with the weight also distributed down through a
secure lower leg, there should not be excessive weight placed on the stirrups and bars.
For endurance riding, hunting and any other discipline which requires the rider to be in the two point seat a
lot, the Suberpanel Versions are very much our recommendation, unless the horse has a prominent wither,
as it has superb weight distribution and pressure absorption properties.
3. Are pressure points caused by the rider’s seatbones?
Answer:
The saddle is as thick as conventional saddles and made of layers of shock absorbing/pressure
dissipating material. We have experienced no soreness in all of the test horses, ‘cold backed’ horses have
shown no resistance at all to the Vogue or Fhoenix. Those horses who have suffered sore backs, through
conventional saddles being incorrectly fitted, accept the Fhoenix willingly.
4. Is there any pressure from the part tree, where it ends or begins, perhaps?
Answer:
No, the part tree is a minimal component of the rigid cantle, and a small support, which enters the seat area
of the saddle by a mere two inches. There is a thick layer of wool felt, plus either the Prolite panels or
Suberpanels underneath the part tree, and it has never caused any problems.
5. Does the saddle feel very wide without a tree?
Answer:
The seat and twist have been designed to allow the rider’s thighs to drop easily into a more vertical knee
position, the saddle having a definite ‘waist’, which does not leave the rider feeling straddled as if bareback.
In fact, the Vogue & Fhoenix very likely provide the narrowist twist similar to a treed saddle of all the flexible or
treeless saddles on the market today, yet are the nearest thing to sitting on a firm cushion on a horse!! The
rider who is accustomed to sitting in a ‘chair’ seat as a result of riding in most GP saddles, will feel more
stretched as little stretch is placed on the hip and thigh joints when sitting in this way - as soon as the leg is
brought back into line, and the hip joints have to open and the thighs stretch, the saddle will feel wide!! This
is often attributed to the fact that the saddle is treeless, but in fact is mostly to do with the placement of the
stirrup bars.
6. So, why are the stirrup bars so much further back?
Answer:
Nearly all conventional saddles have the stirrup bars set too far to the front, resulting in the rider’s seat being
pushed to the back of the saddle, and the thighs pulled forwards. This is why so many riders find it nigh on
impossible to maintain the ear/shoulder/hip/heel line - the very tool that is supposed to be assisting the
rider, i.e. the saddle is actually preventing him or her from maintaining this ideal position of balance! The
stirrup bars are set back as in all of the Heather Moffett designed saddles, to enable an instant
‘ear/shoulder/hip/heel’ line to be easily achieved. The bars have been designed to permit the use of normal
stirrups, allowing the leather to come away and prevent the rider being dragged in the event of a fall. They
are attached to strong webbing, which is in turn, attached to wider bands of webbing strained front to back,
to ensure that the weight is evenly distributed, and which also carries the girth straps.
7. My saddle doesn’t look as if it fits when I place it on my horses’ back - it bridges in the middle and the
panels and flaps seem to point a bit backwards?
Answer:
This is because when the rider’s weight causes the saddle to sink in the middle, this pushes the flaps
forward. The saddle may appear not to touch all along the back, and may protrude at the rear, on either side
of the back, but after riding in it a few times, it will very quickly mould and adjust to the shape of the horse.
8. The saddle looked asymmetric when it came out of the box.
Answer:
This is because it is fully flexible, excepting the cantle, and will sometimes assume the shape of the box.
This will quickly correct itself once used on the horse.
9. The saddle feels very hard when the weather is cold!
Answer:
Under cold conditions, the viscose-elastic foam used in the seat will feel hard. If you do not wish to warm
and soften the foam with your own seat - it is fine to warm the saddle before use, either by keeping it in a
warm place or allowing it to sit for ten minutes or so on the horse’s back before riding, preferably with a rug
over the sadde and horse’s back to retain heat if necessary. One of the microwave ‘hotties’ - a wheat or
similar filled bag used as a hot water bottle or heat pad, is excellent to place on the seat in exceptionally cold
weather, to warm and soften the foam. Another therapeutic suggestion is using a Back on Track Blanket or
cooler which offers reflected infrared heat into the horses back and body (and saddle).
Another wonderful accessory is the Seat Topper made of latex and suede, which is not cold sensitive and
looks superb on the saddle (either Vogue or Fhoenix)!
10. Can I use my normal stirrup leathers with the Fhoenix?
Answer:
Dressage stirrup leathers - i.e. those with adjustment at the stirrup end should be used, as the stirrup bars
cannot be recessed as with treed saddles. We recommend our EE Leathers in exact matching leather
colors, or their equivalent like the Bates Webbers.
11. My stirrup leathers sometimes fall off when I am leading my horse.
Answer:
Cross the leathers over the seat of the saddle when leading. NB - very important!! - the rider must ensure
that the stirrup leather is fully forward on the stirrup bar before mounting! The leather can move to the end of
the bar when the horse is being led, which could lead to the leather coming off if for any reason, the rider’s
lower leg slips back. the stirrup bar cannot have a larger ‘hook’ on the end, because this could cause the
opposite to happen, and the leather may not come off in the event of a fall where the rider could be dragged.
12. What type of girth do you recommend?
Answer:
We strongly advocate the Professional’s Choice dressage girth - this girth is extremely well made,
elasticated at both ends (one end means that the saddle is pulled unequally to one side) and has a wide
neoprene strip against the horse, which is velcroed and can be removed for easy washing. Correct choice of
girth can influence the stability of the saddle and leather girths, in particular, can contribute to stability
problems.
13. How long should my dressage girth be?
Answer:
Usually, a dressage girth needs to be about 20 inches shorter than your regular English general purpose
girth. Ensure that the girth is done up equally on both sides. If the girth is too short, it will result in the horse’s
elbows hitting the buckles as the shoulder swings back and forth. This is very painful, possibly causing
injuries to the elbow, and has even been severe enough for it to be known to bring a horse down. Therefore,
the girth should be long enough to come about two inches below the bottom of the saddle flap, once the
girth is sufficiently tightened.
14. Why have both GP and dressage models long girth straps, and not the conventional three short
billets associated with GP saddles?
Question:
This is because we found the saddles to be less laterally stable with the longer girth, and also with the soft
Italian flaps, the rider is likely to feel the buckles under the thigh, causing them discomfort.
15. Does the Fhoenix come in different widths?
Answer:
The Vogue & Fhoenix have a soft front arch, which expands and contracts automatically to accommodate
most horses. For very high withered horses we recommend the Vogue as it has slightly more wither
clearance than the Vogue. We also recommend the use of the Fleeceworks Perfect Balance Pad for
additional fit or balance adjustments. (see Q&A 18, 19 and 26 for additional fitting instructions to permit
easy fitting to high withered or atrophied horses).
16. Why have suede seat/knees or the butt leather flap as opposed to the soft Italian leather?
Answer:
It really comes down to personal preference and offering the customer a choice. For those riders who prefer
suede options, the suede is the reverse side of the leather hide we use so is high quality and hard wearing.
Butt leather flaps give an even more conventional look to the saddle and has the choice of either soft leather
or suede knees. The soft Italian leather flap with soft knees is also popular as riders enjoy the luxurious feel,
but it does not have the option of suede knees or seat.
17. Do the Vogue or Fhoenix have a gullet and spinal clearance, unlike some other treeless or part
treed saddles?
Answer:
Yes! They have a gullet - but this is more for lateral stability than spinal clearance. The saddle being soft
with no hard tree in either the front arch or down the gullet area, does not need spinal clearance, but the
presence of a gullet does make the saddle remarkably laterally stable, even permitting mounting from the
ground without difficulty. Although we strongly do not advise this on a normal basis, as it is damaging to the
horse’s back, it may be unavoidable out hacking occasionally, if the rider, for instance, drops his or her whip!
18. How do I place extra ‘shimming’ in my Prolite panelled Vogue or Fhoenix?
Answer:
The gullet has a velcroed flap along both sides, see below, allowing a small amount of extra padding to be
inserted into either side of the front arch, between the panel pad and the main body of the saddle, to give
extra clearance to very high withered or atrophied horses, eliminating the need for a variety of extra pads
under the saddle. We can supply Prolite or similar neoprene-based shims for this purpose.
19. What type of numnah or saddle cloth would you recommend?
Answer:
If using a numnah rather than a saddle cloth, make sure that it is large enough to fit so that the numnah has
around an inch at least showing all round the saddle, without any binding seams coming directly
underneath the saddle. This could encourage the saddle, with a less than balanced rider, to slip and rub,
especially across the back under the cantle region.
The Vogue or Fhoenix should always be used with a so-called ‘high wither’ cut saddle cloth, such as the
excellent Fleeceworks range. All saddle cloths and numnahs should be designed in this way, conforming to
the shape of the saddle arch, thereby not pulling across the wither, and creating a pressure point. The high
cut also assists with lateral stability, being cut to fit up into the front arch, rather than straight across.
With wide flat backed horses, overweight ones, such as the horse to the left, and those with mature, correctly
muscled backs, no padding is necessary. Use only a high wither saddle cloth.
For those with a small amount of atrophy, just needing an extra padding boost, our Backsaver pad, made
from the same visco elastic foam as the Fhoenix seat, is ideal, used on top of the Mattes cloth between cloth
and saddle.
Fhoenix Suberpanel Saddle
20. What is the difference between the standard panel and the Suberpanel?
Answer:
The Suberpanel is a fully detachable panel, filled with tiny cork granules, which mould exactly to the shape of
the horse’s back. The panel is chanelled lengthwise, and is also tabbed internally, keeping the cork dense
in the places it is most needed to disperse pressure.
21. Is it washable?
Answer:
Absolutely, in fact it it is even permissible to use the pad damp, out of the washing machine. When wet, the
cork swells, giving the cork extra moulding and adhesive qualities, especially so when used on very wide,
flat backed horses.
22. Has it had much testing?
Answer:
Yes, inventor David Ahn has testimonials from the Army and other institutions which have extensively tested
the original ‘Suberpad’ with weights of men up to 20 stone. The pad performed exceptionally well, and we
have tested it with the Port Lewis Impression Pad, giving the best readings of any of our saddles.
23. Does it slip in use?
Answer:
It is extremely stable even on the widest horses, even being possible to mount from the ground.
24. Does it make the saddle feel very wide?
Answer:
No. Actually, it makes it feel narrower, lifting the rider up slightly more than our standard panels,
accentuating the feeling of a ‘twist’. However, it may feel slightly wide initially before the cork moulds around
the rider's seat.
25. What do you feel are the main benefits of a Suberpanel?
Answer:
The pressure distribution, ease of changing from one horse to another in a busy yard. The freedom of the
shoulder afforded by the Suberpanel, which pulls up at the front when attached to the straps/’d’s, enabling
the shoulder to slide back and forth under the panel, giving exceptional lateral extension of the shoulder,
especially necessary in a dressage horse. It is ideal for wide, flat backed horses and can also be useful for
those with mild atrophy. However, it is not advised for horses with high and/or long, prominent withers.
Underside of panel
Suberpanel, front attachment
Suberpanel front
26. Would you advise the Vogue or Fhoenix even with atrophy of this severity?
Answer:
In this instance, we would even recommend a flat prolite panel Fhoenix, with one of David Ahn’s standard
shape Suberpads to begin with, in place of the shaped Suberpanel - she needs all the padding she can get
in order to develop some of her own! Later, the thicker moulded panels can be inserted and less padding
used, eg a lambswool half-pad, such as the Stephens, or our own backsaver pad.
Even the worse cases of atrophy can be fitted
27. Why do you have two types of moulded panel?
Answer:
The thicker moulded panels are shaped for more depth at the edge of the panels. They are ideal for the
more A framed horse or pony, ponies who although may not have much wither but are physically narrow
compared to, for example, a flat backed cob, or for horses lacking in muscle development. The flatter panels
are ideal for wider, flatter backed horses. However, there is always the exception to the rule, which is why all
new Vogue or Fhoenix saddles will ship with both types of panel, as well as a set of shims. Both types fit in
the leather panel pockets of the Fhoenix saddle and are completely interchangeable.
28. Will the Vogue or Fhoenix last as long as a conventional treed saddle?
Answer:
The saddle is by its nature and construction, very different, and the life expectancy is unlikely to be as long as
that of a treed saddle, which can be twenty years or more with proper care. The saddle has been
manufactured using the finest quality materials, but these are softer than those used in treed saddles, in
order to give the saddle flexibility, and the grip needed when no tree is present. The original Flexion
prototype is still going strong after nine years of use, and the quality of materials used and standard of
manufacture was very poor by comparison! But we like to look at it that in most sports, you would pay at least
a couple of hundred pounds a year for equipment, a decent pair of running shoes will cost £150, so if you
take that the Fhoenix lasts, with proper care and normal use, ten years, that is only £100 per year.
29. How do I care for the saddle?
Answer:
The saddle should be either oiled regularly with a product such as Leather Therapy leather dressing, or can
be waterproofed with Nikwax G wax leather dressing, which will also keep the leather supple. The saddle
should also be regularly cleaned with saddle soap, such as a glycerine based product - the spray glycerine
soaps are excellent - or again the Leather Therapy spray cleaner.
The saddle does not need reflocking and maintenance is minimal. Should the Prolite panels need
replacing, replacements can be ordered here. These can usually be inserted fairly easily. Suberpanels are
extremely long lasting - the original Suberpads from 1996 are still in daily use, but should the panel be
ripped or torn in any way, and the cork lost, replacements can again be purchased.
Stitching should be regularly checked, as with all saddles, especially girth billets and if repair is needed,
should be attended to immediately - please contact us.
Fhoenix Dressage
(Molded Panel)
with Soft Italian Leather in Black.
(Molded Panel)
with Soft Italian Leather in Black.
Backsaver Pad
Fhoenix
Suberpanel Model
Suberpanel Model
The Suberpanel Model
works well for horses with
atrophied backs.
works well for horses with
atrophied backs.
Fhoenix Suberpanel Dressage
with Butt Flaps, Suede Seat and Knees
in Black.
with Butt Flaps, Suede Seat and Knees
in Black.
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Learn about the Fhoenix Saddle or the New Vogue Saddle by Enlightened Equitation atwww.justequus.com! We are US suppliers of all
Enlighted Equitation Saddles and Accessories www.justequus.com.. Just Equus features state of the art tack and holistic horse
products for the highest performance and optimal health of horse and rider. Also featuring Thinline, Fleeceworks, Baretek, Sonnenreiter,
Sore No More and more!
Enlighted Equitation Saddles and Accessories www.justequus.com.. Just Equus features state of the art tack and holistic horse
products for the highest performance and optimal health of horse and rider. Also featuring Thinline, Fleeceworks, Baretek, Sonnenreiter,
Sore No More and more!
Shop Pages
The Vogue Dressage Saddle
Featuring a narrower twist, slightly more
forward flap than Fhoenix, and deeper
seat - the Ultimate Ride!
Featuring a narrower twist, slightly more
forward flap than Fhoenix, and deeper
seat - the Ultimate Ride!
Shop Pages
State of the Art Tack
Apparel
Therapeutics
Holistics
Natural Beauty
The Vogue Dressage Saddle
Isn't that a nice position? Vogue is
designed to allow this effortlessly!
Isn't that a nice position? Vogue is
designed to allow this effortlessly!
The Vogue Dressage Saddle on stand
Available in Suede Seat.
With or without flap decorative stitching.
Available in Suede Seat.
With or without flap decorative stitching.
